I come from a very Catholic family. My father was one of seven, and he had three brothers who were priests. Therefore priests were always visiting our family, and were held in the highest respect.
When I was 15 I wanted to be a doctor like my father, but I had also thought about being a priest. I remember being in the car with my father once while he was doing his rounds visiting the patients, and he suddenly turned to me to ask me what I was going to do with my life. I immediately replied that I wanted to be a priest. I didn’t really know why I said it. I hadn’t made up my mind – it just came out! And I never really doubted that that was what God wanted me to do.
How does the seed grow? It grows through family, through the grace of God, and through the thoughts which come to you from the Good Lord.
How did your family react to the news?
They were very supportive. It was difficult for my parents because they had five boys, and three of us became priests. I was the youngest, and to have a third priest was a big sacrifice for them. But my parents were devoted Catholics, at Mass every morning. The Church was my father’s life; he had great love for the poor – St. Vincent De Paul was his model.
We were a typical pious Catholic family, with rosaries every night and so on. For my parents to have three sons as priests was a privilege, a gift from God, and they never suggested we try something else.
You have spent a lot of your time in Rome, when you were studying for the priesthood, and when you earned Licentiates in Philosophy and Sacred Theology from the Pontifical Gregorian University, and then later as Rector of the Venerabile. What memories do you have of those times in the Eternal City?
I’m one of the few now who can remember the reign of Pope Pius XII. It was the last of a particular era in the Church, before Vatican II. Rome was a different place then, with different colours, and there was a better rhythm of life, not just in the Colleges with the daily prayer, the studies and so on, but also when we went to visit the Lenten Station Churches every day for our afternoon walk. All these things made Rome a part of you; the vita romana got written into your heart.
We were very close to the pope. I remember cheering our present Queen when she came to visit Pope Pius XII as Princess Elizabeth; and the proclamation of the Dogma of the Assumption in 1950, and the Marian Year of 1954. Then we had things called gite (excursions); they were great fun, and we visited various places like Assisi, Florence. I always feel a casa (at home) in Rome.
You were at the recent Consistory which saw the appointment of 23 new cardinals. Pope Benedict XVI told the cardinals that their new role brought with it a degree of fidelity “to the point of shedding your blood” for Christ and the Church. How is the life of a cardinal a life of sacrifice?
The life of a cardinal is even more of a sacrifice than the life of a bishop. I have been a bishop for 30 years, but as a cardinal you are united in a special way to the Holy Father. You become the focus of many who want to support or not support you. You have to make decisions which may cause pain or difficulties to some because you have to be a faithful witness to the Gospel and the teaching of the Church. This is not easy in our culture here in Britain because people sometimes misunderstand or don’t want to hear the Good News of the Gospel. What a cardinal has to say is often counter-cultural. As St. Thomas More said, “You cannot get to heaven in feather beds!”
After this latest Consistory, the balance of power within the College of Cardinals has shifted decidedly to the Old Continent. Half the cardinals are now European, with a large proportion in the Curia. This new balance reflects Benedict’s belief in the centrality of Europe in his evangelisation project. Do you think there is a danger of neglecting the other continents?
There is certainly no intention on the Holy Father’s part of neglecting the other continents, but I do think that Benedict has a particular concern for Europe because, of all the five continents, Europe is the one most in danger of losing its Christian heritage. He talks about relativism, the link between faith, culture and reason. He does it beautifully and clearly, so among his priorities would certainly be the re-evangelisation of Europe.
He has an equal concern for the other continents, though, and knows all too well how the faith is under threat in many other parts of the world, as in Vietnam, China and some Islamic countries.
What would you like to see happening most of all in British Catholicism?
I would like to see British Catholics have deeper faith because a bishop’s task is to preach, teach and shepherd. That’s always at the heart of a bishop’s ministry.
Also, Catholics in Britain need to be braver in withstanding mainstream secular culture; to realise that we Catholics must be in the world, but not of it.
I rejoice that the Catholic Church in Britain, which used to be on the periphery of society, now has a distinctive voice within the social and cultural life of this country. However, we don’t want to be absorbed and lose our identity in this secular culture, but be brave enough to express our faith. So we need a prayer for fortitude.
Today I found in one of the most popular London bookshops three best sellers contending that a supernatural creator almost certainly does not exist. They were in the so-called religious section.
I presume one of them would be The God Delusion by British biologist Richard Dawkins. All these arguments that are put forward against the existence of God or against the Catholic Church have a semblance of truth in them, but they are very shallow. These authors think that they can eliminate humankind’s intuition of higher truths. They ought to reflect on what Cardinal Consalvi said when informed that Napoleon wanted to destroy the Church. Consalvi replied, “He will never succeed. We have not managed to do it ourselves!”
These books are written by highly intelligent people under the delusion that by sheer intelligence they can disprove God. They do not notice that in the process they leave out things they don’t realize. They do not see that God reveals Himself to the humble, not to the arrogant.
During the 2000 Jubilee Pope John Paul II appointed you Archbishop of Westminster, and thus head of the Catholic Church in England and Wales. He then created you Cardinal in 2001. What memories do you have of our late pontiff?
My first memory was when he was still Cardinal Wojtyla. He had come to the English College for lunch, and I was impressed by his strength and vitality. On another occasion the English-speaking bishops were invited to a reception at the Polish Centre, and halfway through I heard a voice singing, and there was Cardinal Wojtyla singing us a Polish song. I felt we should sing something too, but we were too diverse. There were American bishops, Irish bishops, etc., so in the end I suggested an Irish song, the Rose of Tralee. We sang it, but we made a rather dismal performance!
Another episode was his visit to England, Scotland and Wales in 1982. It was a wonderful week. The British people saw, for the first time, the Catholic community as a wide and faithful community from many different social backgrounds, yet united in faith and devotion to the Holy See and Pope John Paul.
And I met him a number of times with the Archbishop of Canterbury, Robert Runcie, because I was in ARCIC – the Anglican and Roman Catholic International Commission. Whenever the Archbishop of Canterbury went to visit Pope John Paul in Rome I would accompany him. I remember that John Paul once said to Archbishop Runcie, “Affective collegiality will lead eventually to effective collegiality”. In other words that warmth, friendship and communal prayer will lead gradually to something more theologically ecclesial.
The last time I met him was in 2003, in private audience. We talked about Cardinal Newman and his looked-for beatification; how the English do not seem to be as good as the Italians over miracles. I told him that as a student I had been to see Padre Pio at San Giovanni Rotondo, had seen him in ecstasy with the stigmata, and talked with him. There was no question in my mind that this humble Capuchin was someone of importance. Finally, we talked about sanctity – it was very moving.
Could you describe one human encounter that left a deep impression on you?
Besides Padre Pio and our late pontiff, another person I greatly admired was Baron Leonard Cheshire. He was a highly decorated RAF pilot during the Second World War, and official British observer of the nuclear bombing of Nagasaki. He subsequently became a Catholic, and was much involved in setting up charities and foundations, especially for the disabled.
I met him a number of times. You might be talking with him about practical things, but he would eventually turn the conversation to matters of faith. He would ask me about Original Sin, the angels, and so on. He prayed for two hours every morning.
The Catholic Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales, over which you preside, and the Church of England House of Bishops, met together for the first time in November 2006 in Leeds. After that historic meeting you issued a joint statement with the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr. Rowan Williams, underlining the importance of working together as partners. How do you see relations with the Church of England developing?
That meeting was the first of its kind. There were all of our Catholic bishops, 30 of us, and about 40 Anglican bishops. It was very creative and positive, not essentially about theological issues, but an encounter between people representing Christianity in Britain.
Oddly enough it was also an opportunity for the Anglicans to talk not only with us, but also among themselves, because they are not all on the same wavelength. So it was quite helpful for them, and they felt, as we did, that they could talk very freely. But, whether Anglican or Catholic, we are all deeply concerned about the Christian faith here in Britain, and how we, as Christians, can cooperate to strengthen it.
It is true that the Anglican Church is going through a difficult period but their relationship with us is very good. Our diocesan bishops get on well with their Anglican counterparts.
I personally take no joy at all in the difficulties that exist within the Anglican Communion, and I think we should pray for them.
You were the chairman of ARCIC, the Anglican Roman Catholic International Commission, and last September you attended the Third Ecumenical Conference in Sibiu, Romania. During that meeting it was stated that Ecumenism is in crisis but Cardinal Kasper maintained that Ecumenism is now entering the phase of straightforward dialogue and clarity, and that, in any case, there is no alternative to Ecumenism. What is your opinion?
I agree totally with Cardinal Kasper. Ecumenism is like a road with no exit, there’s no going back. Whatever the difficulties, we cannot say we will have no more relationships, make no more efforts to create a deeper communion with all our Christian brothers and sisters. Pope Benedict has said the same.
There are different levels of ecumenism, though. There is ecumenism with the Orthodox Churches, with the Churches of the Reformation, and with the various Evangelical denominations.
The Catholic Church has a particular bond with the Orthodox Churches – we share the same sacraments and faith. But I don’t think that we should ignore the other two levels of ecumenism either. There is a little bit of ecumenical gloom at the moment but we should not be too gloomy.
When you think back to how things were 50 years ago, you realize how much progress has been made. Now we pray together; we reach out together to non-Christians.
In some ways we have gone back a little bit to what I would call “spiritual ecumenism”, which is so important because it means being, praying and listening together. There’s a lovely passage in Unitatis Redintegratio, the Vatican II document on ecumenism: “There can be no ecumenism worthy of the name without a change of heart. For it is from renewal of the inner life of our minds, from self-denial and an unstinted love that desires of unity take their rise and develop in a mature way”.
Ecumenism requires inner conversion, not suspicion, an opening of love. It requires a newness of attitude, not a looking down on other Christians, but seeing how we can cooperate; and unstinted love, the love of Christ.
Last November Pope Benedict XVI issued his second encyclical, Spe Salvi (Saved in Hope). In this document the Holy Father stresses that Christian hope is never individualistic, but brings with it a sort of “communal salvation”(Paragraph 14). Has the post-Vatican II Church grown in this awareness?
Benedict’s style of writing is beautiful and lucid. In the encyclical, the Holy Father uses his intellect to point out that hope is essential. What the world is looking for today is meaning and hope, so Spe Salvi is not just addressed to individual Catholics, but to the whole world.
The Pope expresses so well that beyond the little hopes we all have in our lives there is the big hope, and that this big hope is not just for you and me, but for everyone. For there is the danger that Christianity may become too individualistic, that one may focus exclusively on his or her salvation, and not worry about the rest.
If you had to explain God to a 6-year-old child, how would you go about it?
I would ask the child, “Who loves you, and whom do you love?” The child would probably answer, “My mother and father”. So I would express the love God has for the child in terms of mother and father. When a baby receives smiles from its parents, it knows it is loved.
Do you remember any specific episode concerning Saint Anthony of Padua?
He actually finds things for me! I’ve been to Padua, and prayed at the Saint’s Tomb, so I have a special place for Saint Anthony in my heart. Some of his prayers are very beautiful; there is one I quoted at the funeral homily for Baron Charles Forte a few months ago. Baron Forte had great devotion to Saint Anthony, so I recited one of the Saint’s prayers. Saint Anthony is an inspiration to anyone on how to love Christ, on the need to preach and be brave. Personally, I have had devotion for him from as far back as I can remember.
Easter is fast approaching. What would you like to wish to our readers?
I wish you, readers of the Messenger of Saint Anthony not just a happy Easter, but to experience that the renewal which comes into your hearts through the Resurrection of Jesus will bring you renewed hope in faith and love, and enable you to realize that the Risen Lord is always at your side, helping you, preserving you, and assuring you of the love of God, His Father.
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ARCHBISHOP OF WESTMINSTER and President of the Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor, was born on 24 August 1932 in Reading, Berkshire, the fifth son of Dr. George Murphy-O'Connor and his wife, Ellen.
Cormac Murphy-O’Connor began training for the priesthood in 1950 at the Venerable English College, Rome. Whilst at the College, he took a degree in philosophy (PhL) and theology (STL) at the Gregorian University, Rome. He was ordained priest in Rome on 28 October 1956.
In1966 he became private secretary and chaplain to the Bishop of Portsmouth, the Rt. Rev. Derek Worlock. The Holy See appointed him Rector of the Venerable English College, Rome, giving him the responsibility for the training of students for the priesthood in 1971.
On 21 December 1977 Cormac Murphy-O’Connor was ordained Bishop of the diocese of Arundel and Brighton. He served as Chairman of the Bishops’ Committee for Europe (1978 to 1983), and as Vice-President of the Laity Commission (1978 to 1983). From 1983 to 2000 he was Chairman of the Committee for Christian Unity, and, from 1994 to 2000, Chairman of the Department for Mission and Unity. From 1982 to 2000 he was Co-Chairman of the Anglican and Roman Catholic International Commission (ARCIC). In 2000 he was awarded a Doctorate of Divinity by the Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr. George Carey, in recognition of all his work for Christian unity.
He was installed as tenth Archbishop of Westminster on 22 March 2000. In November 2000 he was elected President of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales. In February 2001 he was created a cardinal by Pope John Paul II.
In January 2002, at the invitation of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Cardinal Murphy-O’Connor was the first member of the Catholic hierarchy since 1680 to deliver a sermon to an English monarch.
Updated on October 06 2016